Good Story vs Good Power Hierarchy

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Good Story vs Good Power Hierarchy
Tweet Topic Started: Sep 21 2015, 03:30 PM (1,021 Views)
Mihawk	Sep 21 2015, 03:30 PM Post #1
Posts: 4,804 Group: Prodigy Member #4,783 Joined: March 2, 2010 Gender Not Specified	Which do you care about more? At first I thought I cared more about story but after thinking about it for a while I realized I cared more about power spreads. The only series I can think about that I really only cared about for the story is FMA:B.



Tinny	Sep 21 2015, 04:01 PM Post #2
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	What exactly do you mean by power spread? Generally I need to like the characters I'm watching before I really get to liking the action or not, so I'd say story over power.
	Above signature created by Graffiti


EMIYA	Sep 21 2015, 04:20 PM Post #3
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	If someone honestly cares more about the power hierarchy of the characters over the actual series than that really goes to show how s***ty your series must be when it is so bad that it apparently can't have its audience focused on the main subject.



Mihawk	Sep 21 2015, 04:27 PM Post #4
Posts: 4,804 Group: Prodigy Member #4,783 Joined: March 2, 2010 Gender Not Specified	tin man Sep 21 2015, 04:01 PM What exactly do you mean by power spread? Generally I need to like the characters I'm watching before I really get to liking the action or not, so I'd say story over power. For example in Naruto you have genin, chounin, jounin, and kage. And within those ranks you have upper and lower ranks; for example with jounin, Kakashi (although Kakashi reaches kage tier by the end) and Gai would be upper rank while someone like Asuma would be mid tier. Then you throw more complexity into the power hierarchy with different villages and power affinities. Dark Matter Sep 21 2015, 04:20 PM If someone honestly cares more about the power hierarchy of the characters over the actual series than that really goes to show how s***ty your series must be when it is so bad that it apparently can't have its audience focused on the main subject. This seems like a false dichotomy. You can still like the plot of the story but still be more attracted to power hierarchies from a subjective viewpoint to most series. And there are some series where the main subject is power, such as Dragonball.



+ Ssj3vegito96	Sep 21 2015, 05:30 PM Post #5
Posts: 10,327 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	It depends on how much power means in the series. Like you said, FMA:B I didn't really think about it too much. If we're talking about like dbz or hxh, yeah it's pretty important to me
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


Tinny	Sep 21 2015, 05:46 PM Post #6
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	Kyo Sep 21 2015, 04:27 PM tin man Sep 21 2015, 04:01 PM What exactly do you mean by power spread? Generally I need to like the characters I'm watching before I really get to liking the action or not, so I'd say story over power. For example in Naruto you have genin, chounin, jounin, and kage. And within those ranks you have upper and lower ranks; for example with jounin, Kakashi (although Kakashi reaches kage tier by the end) and Gai would be upper rank while someone like Asuma would be mid tier. Then you throw more complexity into the power hierarchy with different villages and power affinities. Ah, world building is something that can be interesting for me, but generally I don't care too much about that, honestly I think I prefer a system where allot of things can happen to mess with the power hierarchy, see any time Superman gets near kryptonite for an obvious example, or the effect magic has on him, or the fact that Batman can take him on and have a chance at winning even when he's pretty much ambushed by Superman, even though Superman has an obscene power advantage on him. It can be interesting to see but generally it takes a back seat and shouldn't be an be all end all system in my opinion. Edited by Tinny, Sep 21 2015, 05:48 PM.
	Above signature created by Graffiti


EMIYA	Sep 21 2015, 06:06 PM Post #7
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	Kyo Sep 21 2015, 04:27 PM tin man Sep 21 2015, 04:01 PM What exactly do you mean by power spread? Generally I need to like the characters I'm watching before I really get to liking the action or not, so I'd say story over power. For example in Naruto you have genin, chounin, jounin, and kage. And within those ranks you have upper and lower ranks; for example with jounin, Kakashi (although Kakashi reaches kage tier by the end) and Gai would be upper rank while someone like Asuma would be mid tier. Then you throw more complexity into the power hierarchy with different villages and power affinities. Dark Matter Sep 21 2015, 04:20 PM If someone honestly cares more about the power hierarchy of the characters over the actual series than that really goes to show how s***ty your series must be when it is so bad that it apparently can't have its audience focused on the main subject. This seems like a false dichotomy. You can still like the plot of the story but still be more attracted to power hierarchies from a subjective viewpoint to most series. And there are some series where the main subject is power, such as Dragonball. Something like power hierarchies shouldn't be put above the actual story or premise of the series. Even with something like Dragon Ball, just because there is a heavy emphasis on power doesn't mean that's what the main subject is. Dragon Ball, simple as it may get sometimes still has a story, plot, characters and what not that is supposed to keep your attention and entertain you. On a forum like this when I have to debate specific power points sure but nobody in their right mind imo would actually watch a series based majority on what the power gaps were. It would be like putting in Fullmetal Alchemist and going: "Where's the numbers? What's the gap between Mustang and Al? I can't handle this I need my power gaps! What's this story thing? I can't handle this!" Even something like Fate/Zero and Fate/Stay Night whose power premise is far more complicated than anything in DBZ, Bleach, etc still focuses heavily on the story because, I mean that's what is important to the series.



lazerbem	Sep 21 2015, 07:29 PM Post #8
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	Ambiguous power ranking is fine by me. That being said, it really annoys me when characters either get random hax or job for the sake of the story. It can be done well, but it generally looks really sloppy
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


Mihawk	Sep 21 2015, 08:07 PM Post #9
Posts: 4,804 Group: Prodigy Member #4,783 Joined: March 2, 2010 Gender Not Specified	Dark Matter Sep 21 2015, 06:06 PM Kyo Sep 21 2015, 04:27 PM tin man Sep 21 2015, 04:01 PM What exactly do you mean by power spread? Generally I need to like the characters I'm watching before I really get to liking the action or not, so I'd say story over power. For example in Naruto you have genin, chounin, jounin, and kage. And within those ranks you have upper and lower ranks; for example with jounin, Kakashi (although Kakashi reaches kage tier by the end) and Gai would be upper rank while someone like Asuma would be mid tier. Then you throw more complexity into the power hierarchy with different villages and power affinities. Dark Matter Sep 21 2015, 04:20 PM If someone honestly cares more about the power hierarchy of the characters over the actual series than that really goes to show how s***ty your series must be when it is so bad that it apparently can't have its audience focused on the main subject. This seems like a false dichotomy. You can still like the plot of the story but still be more attracted to power hierarchies from a subjective viewpoint to most series. And there are some series where the main subject is power, such as Dragonball. Something like power hierarchies shouldn't be put above the actual story or premise of the series. Even with something like Dragon Ball, just because there is a heavy emphasis on power doesn't mean that's what the main subject is. Dragon Ball, simple as it may get sometimes still has a story, plot, characters and what not that is supposed to keep your attention and entertain you. On a forum like this when I have to debate specific power points sure but nobody in their right mind imo would actually watch a series based majority on what the power gaps were. It would be like putting in Fullmetal Alchemist and going: "Where's the numbers? What's the gap between Mustang and Al? I can't handle this I need my power gaps! What's this story thing? I can't handle this!" Even something like Fate/Zero and Fate/Stay Night whose power premise is far more complicated than anything in DBZ, Bleach, etc still focuses heavily on the story because, I mean that's what is important to the series. Why shouldn't it be put above the actual story? Just because you enjoy stories more than power hierarchies? Dragonball would be a bad example of power hierarchy. You have character A > B > C. It's way too simple. I admit that Fate/Zero had a good story, but I stayed for the power ranks. I loved how Gilgamesh towers over everything, yet he can still be challenged. If it weren't for that a cartoon in another language would have absolutely no appeal to me. I did come for the interesting plot, but I stayed for the power rankings. lazerbem Sep 21 2015, 07:29 PM Ambiguous power ranking is fine by me. That being said, it really annoys me when characters either get random hax or job for the sake of the story. It can be done well, but it generally looks really sloppy Ambiguous power ranking is good power ranking. Something as straightforward as PLs are what ruin power rankings.



* Yu Narukami	Sep 21 2015, 08:11 PM Post #10
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	It's really hard to say. I like a good mixture of both. Early Naruto, for example. Speed, Skill, Jutsu and Intelligence were all humongous factors in battle, and one character could easily topple a much stronger one by using one of them. Later on it kinda degraded into A > B > C, but for the most part it was brilliant.



EMIYA	Sep 21 2015, 08:36 PM Post #11
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	That literally makes no sense to me though. Let's say a new series is out, don't you want to watch it because the premise of the story entices you? Power rankings might be nice if I'm getting into a debate but when I'm watching the actual show I want to know what's going on with the story and characters. I want to be invested in the emotions, plot and development. Things like power rankings, that's something that comes well after beyond the series itself. I'll get on a forum and debate power ranking if need be but there is no way I'd ever watch a series for the initial response to see how the power rankings worked. I honestly don't know how anyone would even want to do that. I can't say it any other way. If a person watches a series mainly for the power rankings, then they have effectively missed the purpose of the series. Even something like Dragon Ball wasn't about how much stronger Goku was compared to Freeza or something. It was about action, gags and adventure and that's pretty much what anyone watching the show is expecting. We bring power rankings from the story, not the other way around.



Mihawk	Sep 21 2015, 09:02 PM Post #12
Posts: 4,804 Group: Prodigy Member #4,783 Joined: March 2, 2010 Gender Not Specified	Dark Matter Sep 21 2015, 08:36 PM That literally makes no sense to me though. Let's say a new series is out, don't you want to watch it because the premise of the story entices you? Power rankings might be nice if I'm getting into a debate but when I'm watching the actual show I want to know what's going on with the story and characters. I want to be invested in the emotions, plot and development. Things like power rankings, that's something that comes well after beyond the series itself. I'll get on a forum and debate power ranking if need be but there is no way I'd ever watch a series for the initial response to see how the power rankings worked. I honestly don't know how anyone would even want to do that. I can't say it any other way. If a person watches a series mainly for the power rankings, then they have effectively missed the purpose of the series. Even something like Dragon Ball wasn't about how much stronger Goku was compared to Freeza or something. It was about action, gags and adventure and that's pretty much what anyone watching the show is expecting. We bring power rankings from the story, not the other way around. Here's the thing. I don't really care much about debating power rankings. I just enjoy the visualization of them the same way you enjoy the visualization of the plot line. The purpose of the series shouldn't matter in how a person enjoys it. Like if coffee isn't necessarily supposed to taste good, just wake you up - but some people drink it for the taste anyway. All I'm saying is who else here drinks decaf?



lazerbem	Sep 21 2015, 10:31 PM Post #13
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	The story can look stupid though if random hax is pulled out of nowhere. Imagine if in a recent episode of Super, there's a timewarp and Beers is sent back in time. He fights Kid Goku, and gets his a*** handed to him with no explanation. That is what I take issue with. It can be overlooked for the sake of story, but generally, it looks really bad
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


+ Steve	Sep 21 2015, 11:28 PM Post #14
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	Eh I kind of prefer good world building to be honest, it's rare to find a story that's so remarkably different from others that it can catch your attention in a significant way, in shounen anyway. Like Toriko, it's story...it even has a story? Kind of...maybe, who knows. The feats and fights in it are epic enough to keep fans interested though, mother f*in' casually punch out several trillion ton mountains and s. The way in which the power hierarchy in Toriko is presented makes it an enjoyable series, if you like that sort of thing. I often find that if powers and rules aren't clearly outlined the story is often overshadowed by massive plot holes or stupid moments. Like in Fairy Tail(just gonna say it since it happened ages ago in the anime and manga) how Natsu beats the Light and Dark Dragon Slayers by himself. Utter bulls**. Tons of that in Fairy Tail. Not that the story is good any way but it's a great example of how badly stuff can go wrong without a good power hierarchy.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


+ Ssj3vegito96	Sep 21 2015, 11:33 PM Post #15
Posts: 10,327 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	Powers need to be handled well. What's going on in the show movie or whatever is the first thing I think of but when ridiculous things happen like that example lazerbem made, I'm not going to overlook it just because it has a nice story. The plot still has to be good though For me, when I'm watching a battle oriented series, I'm going to be looking at how well the powers are handled almost if not just as much as the plot. Why put so much focus on it? Well why watch a battle oriented series to begin with? I like super powers If it can get to the point where it makes the story stupid then that's REALLY bad for me Bleach for example: this 15 year old punk emo kid always gets the right amount of training to single handledly beat and sometimes roflstomp the villain. Aizens scheme was going for hundreds of years and he transforms like 3 times. He's literally on the verge of becoming a godly being and this kid wipes the floor with him after a little bit of mental training. What was a decent story for a while was just s* on and made into a joke Like Steve said above me. Natsu is a good example too In series like dbz or hxh, I'm almost if not just as much interested in power levels as I am in the plot Edited by Ssj3vegito96**, Sep 21 2015, 11:35 PM.
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


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